Nolobenros?

[Tai'lahr]

If we believe the beings we currently refer to as "Bahro" are from Noloben, then shouldn't we be referring to them as Nolobens, Nolobenians or Nolobenros? (Maybe the DLS could tell us what the proper name should be.)

Bahro is such a derogatory term for sentient beings, and by using this word which means "beast people," it seems we have already acknowledged that they are, indeed, people.

Perhaps acknowledging their home world and adopting this more respectful form of address could be another step towards establishing communication with them.

[Eleri]

Nolobenii? Nolobenic?
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KI#68241
Eleri Underground Blog

[Frisky Badger]

That's what the Bahro keep calling in the cavern: their real name!
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A seedling does not attempt to replace a tree that went before it. It only seeks to grow.
(D'ni proverb, revealed by RAWA, June 8, 2001)

Frisky Badger KI ID: 02916326

[Ruvinka]

Poles are from Poland
Perhaps Nolobs are from Noloben?

it doesn't sound very attractive does it? I am not at all well versed in D'ni (something I am working on rectifying) Do we know a translation for Noloben? Or is it simply a proper noun with no alternative meaning besides the age is represents?
If we knew what Noloben meant maybe we could use a better word to refer to them.
*places two pennies in the till*
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Ruvinka
Ki#1959001

[BrettM]

Maybe Arthur should add this to his list of investigations, question targeted for Phend. (Surely he must know what they want to be called after all these years with them.) We don't even know for sure that Noloben IS their home Age. Another question for Phil.
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[Zander]

Besides, Noloben is the D'ni word for it. It's like a Vietnamese shouting "French Indo-China!"

I agree bahro is an insulting term for them (and, if Yeesha's final speech of the Journey can be believed, "Least" is no longer applicable either). But till we know their language and whether we can even approximate it with our own equipment (parts of it may be ultrasonic, telepathic, or pheromonic, to name just three things that would stump us) there's little hope of finding a more respectful mode of address.
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Zander
the Heretic

[Gondar]

It's quite likely a one to one translation of their name for themselves is impossible. We speak, and write as we speak.
The bahro... might not.
what's the translation for say "Phil"? We generally make up conversions of names when they have no intransic meaning or if it's long forgotten.

If the bahro say only commuicate via body gestures, how do you translate something that's a simple label? Any one is as good as another. So we might end up sticking with bahro, even once we open dialogue with them, as whatever works. Hence the terms 'bahronoir' and 'bahroblanc' stuck, even though white and black have nothing to do with it, and heck, even good and evil aren't so simple. It's labels we gave them for purpose of identification, and they've lost most meaning they had otherwise. If you want to bring up the meaning and protest, fine, but don't get sore when no one pays attention.


Then again, I think body language is much of how they communicate. Remember what Sharper said?
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[Zander]

So why do you have this aversion to being called Muffincakes? It is, after all, just a label...


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Zander
the Heretic

[BrettM]

Why do we have to know their language to address them more respectfully? If they have a name for themselves that we can pronounce, fine. But, in the meanwhile, surely the D'ni language (or even our own) is capable of coming up with something better than an insult to use. I presume Phil can understand them, so perhaps he can translate the name of their species for us.
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[Zander]

[andylegate]

Considering the sample of sounds that they make, it may acutally be impossible to reproduce the sound that they call themselves IF they use sound for that at all! They might communicate on a level that we're not able to sense.

We call our selves Humans, which comes from the latin word of Humanus.
The word "human" itself is from Latin humanus, an adjective cognate to homo, both derived from Proto-Indo-European language.
Homo Sapiens which is latin for "Wise Man" or "Knowing Man". However, in today's world, approaching someone and calling them a "Homo" (which simply means Man in latin) can be seen as insulting person's sexual orientation. So, as we see, the meaning of words change as our society does.

I would think or hope in any case that the Bahro have come to understand english being spoken in the cavern. More than likely, if anyone can come up with a polite name for them, I don't think the Bahro would mind it in the least (sic).
Somebody start a poll..........
I'm all for the D'ni term for "Free Linkers" since they link at will.
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416,958 pellet points uploaded round 1!


And for the record MY name is Andy Legate. Not andylegate, one is a username, the other is my namename!

[Tai'lahr]

Thank you all for your thoughtful contributions to this discussion; you've helped me to clarify my thoughts on what I'm really seeking here. And, I'm not really looking for a word in their language to communicate with them directly, but rather a word that might clarify our thinking about who and what they are. And, maybe if we evolve our thinking about them, it will bring us closer to understanding them… which can eventually lead to communicating with them.

Brett & Andy have the right idea.

[BrettM]

[Zander]

[BrettM]

I propose "Vahkhro" -- linking-people -- as a first step in changing our thinking, then. Until such time as the Vahkhro themselves (or a representative such as Phil) offer us a better alternative.
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