The Cult of Yeesha

[Kaelri]

[Waldorf]

Sounds like Yeesha's message and teachings need to be collected and codified in one place. A resource for interested explorers to research and learn about her and her teachings. Then perhaps there needs to exist some organization of like-minded explorers who know and respect Yeesha's teachings to organize and propogate the 'true' Yeesha dogma in such a way as to accurately represent her message and not misrepresent her or her work...

If this sounds familiar, it is because this is how every major world religion coalesced around its principal figure and their teachings/messages in their most nascent stages.

[ireenquench]

You bring up interesting points Kaelri, but (as one who tries to listen to Yeesha, tries to understand and even communicate, but is not following/worshipping her, nor demanding anything), I get a bit uncomfortable with you stating you somehow know what the "wrong" (e.g. cultish) "following" is and what the right kind (the kind of the "true followers" you speak of). How can you know and why do you point the finger?

You disclaim later that you cannot speak for the vague "us" behind your words, nor for Yeesha, that makes me much more comfortable.

I am sorry, but I just don't understand religion very well when it comes to the point were people say because of them knowing/believing some kind of truth means they can judge others.
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Research. Discuss. Consider options. Act.

[Kolian]

Well as my father says, "Truth exists" is only a few syllogisms away from "I should kill you".
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Guild of Outcasts

KI # 00233944

[Kaelri]

[Vormaen]

I think my frame of mind and passions far exceed any discomfort you may have caused Kaelri. That's why it's hard to associate wit me. I cause too many ripples. And I can admit that given others' position, I might be uncomfortable with my own words as well. But no change was ever brought forth from the silent or fearful.

But Kaelri brings up a good point. All we all want is answers. And it is everyone's right to come and defend themsleves. I think, from a previous thread, that Sydney is purposely avoiding answering our concerns here. Someone should be at that meeting of hers on the 11th, I'm afraid though it won't be me. If I show up it might just upset the discussion. I suggest someone more level headed and practical, with no agenda either way, should go and report back here.
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"One owes respect to the living. To the dead, one owes only the truth." -Voltaire


Member of the Unbound Hearts of D'ni, but nothing more than a man.



Ki #00190483

[Andrew Eldred]

Kaelri--

That essay, and the point-of-view it acutely articulates, is impressive on any number of levels. Try to ignore the naysayers, and before you go much further, we should have a discussion.

Your comrade in this cause,
--Andrew Eldred

[ireenquench]

Allright, I’ll bite.

I might bail out of this discussion though, later, if it turns too much into a religious debate. While I respect anyone’s faith/belief in Yeesha, it’s just not my thing and I fear the strife that can come out of faith based discussions. I don’t want anyone to get hurt. And I shy away when things weird me out, so to speak.

I must admit, you hurt my pride since you brought up the shaping of a spiral thing. “Ouch, but, but...” I went inside my head, since I did partake in that gathering. You can find my view on what happened there here.
The way I see gathering and shaping symbols out of human bodies is not that it’s worship or a demanding kind of “summoning”, it’s rather an attempt at doing something meaningful, show that we are here, come in peace.
Of course actions like these can be seen as childish, especially if they are taken under the presumption that it’s a uber relevant thing and “stuff” will happen immediately. I’d like to see them more as being child-like, in a good way. Playing, experimenting, suspending our belief in the material world for just a brief moment, imagining we can establish contact with the more hard to grasp factors in the Cavern, like Yeesha or the Bahro. I want to establish this contact because it is part of my explorative nature, I just want to learn what’s going on.

Similar events have taken place since then. And again, I can only speak for myself, not any of the others who took part in them. Just an example. Ian Watson of the DLF started an attempt to communicate with the Bahro, at first the idea was to shape a “friendship” symbol, I believe because Tweek had brought that symbol up (he had put it on his imager)...and I went to support Ian Watson’s event because of the inherent beauty I see in making signs and because anything concerning the Bahro is a favourite field of interest of mine. I came late to that gathering and by the time I came, Ian Watson, Sil and the folks present had decided to make a “rain” symbol, because it’s easier to make. I helped organizing that, and from my memory I don’t recall anyone being forced into anything, there was little semi-religious talk, to me it appeared mostly as a fun gathering, and at the same time a serious attempt to communicate.
I mean, there’s not much we can do in the Cavern to establish contact with the Bahro (or Yeesha), little is known, so why not experiment with communicative acts and in the meantime collaborate peacefully in making those signs? I can’t see anything bad in that message, if it gets across. I don’t know, it might even mirror your quote of the Watcher about calling in the dark and singing in times of joy, I just don’t know, but what’s wrong with trying? Yet I fail to see how the pride part would come in there, since I don’t recall anybody saying at these events they knew better than others or this was the only thing to do or anything like that.

I completely understand your concern about pride. It is definitely a factor in the cavern that’s there and has me worried as well. I am not a “believer”, but I feel I’d make a mistake out of pride if I started judging other’s take on the restoration or their specific belief in Yeesha etc. Who am I to know? I try to respect others doing their thing. We’re all just people, with different ideas and stances and nobody really knows for sure what’s right or wrong in this, IMO. I think we are currently in the stage of getting a feeling what might be right or wrong, still observing our surroundings, others and ourselves, trying to get a knack of it.

Sheesh, now I feel really prideful since I had to spell all of that out in some projected “self-defence”. *runs off to take a shower*
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Research. Discuss. Consider options. Act.

[Zander]

[Andrew Eldred]

Actually, Zander, I agree with you, but to a greater degree. Without pride, I don't believe I'd be able to function whatsoever. I don't think anyone could. I embrace that level of pride.

Can pride be in excess? Definitely. Can it be in deficit? I think so, definitely.

Happiness is in the moderation--Aristotle was the first to approach ethics with that view, and I think it's the most true. Sorry, Yeesha.

Also, ireen--you totally didn't mention the party at my relto afterwards! Or did you not go? I can't really remember....

[Tesseract]

[Kaelri]

[ireenquench]

I'll retract my pointy finger, it gets cold out there.

Points taken, Kaelri, especially about the body art / communicative act appearing too much to be a gnostic ritual, the danger of group hysteria and it possibly being alienating to others.

I have thought about this, certainly makes me think twice when it comes to participating. I don't know what to do about that. It makes me sad that such simple ideas somehow tend to lose their innocence, over time and through words. But I don't want to give up on that yet. I am holding on to the core of the idea.
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Research. Discuss. Consider options. Act.

[beachrm]

I am somewhat pleased to hear some in the cavern utilizing group body sculpture, body art and other means to commune with the spirit-spirits which arise within and transcend the cavern.
The return of the gnostics from the religious outlands to which they were cast by their enemies is a result much to be desired. Maybe we could LEARN a little KNOWLEDGE from their experience.
Gnostic's Bevin would be a great place for learning about the spiritual connection which underlies our existence in the cavern and out.
Agnostic's Bevin could stand in comfortable contrast to Gnostic's Bevin.
Individuals previously outcast as heretics could jump from one of these bevins to another, refreshing themselves in an oxygenating rhythmic oscillation whenever the B.S. gets to thick to breath elsewhere.
O Wise Gnostics!
O Clear-eyed Agnostics!
Rise from the unhappy depths
To which you were cast!
Return to your rightful role as
Pathfinders and Lightgivers.